Cosmic Order - Dialogue 10 with Prof David Bohm [ 1980 - Ending of Time series]

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When the mind is totally empty of all the things that thought has put there, then real meditation begins. I would like to go more deeply into that matter and find out if the mind, the brain, can ever be free from all illusion and forms of deception. Also whether it can have its own order - an order not introduced by thought, effort or any endeavor to put things in their proper place. And also, however much damaged the brain is by shock and all kinds of situations, whether it can heal itself completely.

K: Can the mind, the brain, be totally free of all organized order?
DB: You mean by organized order, a fixed or imposed pattern?
K: Yes.  Imposed or self-imposed. We are trying to investigate whether the brain can ever be free from all impositions, pressures, wounds, bruises and trivialities of existence which are pushing it in different directions. If it cannot, meditation has no meaning.

I, as a human being, have seen that this insight has wiped away the past, and the brain is willing to live in nothingness. We have come to this point several times from different directions. Now let's go on. There isn't a thing put there by thought. There is no movement of thought, except factual knowledge which has its own place. But talking psychologically, there is no movement in the mind or of thought. There is absolutely nothing... We come to that point, what then is meditation? For the man who is becoming, meditation has no meaning whatsoever.  That is a tremendous statement. When there is not this being or becoming, what is meditation? It must be totally unconscious, totally uninvited.

Brockwood Park June 7, 1980 Dialogue 10 with Prof David Bohm

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